[SEEK-Taxon] RE: GBIF and TCS-LC for data exchange

Roger Hyam roger at hyam.net
Tue Mar 1 01:32:09 PST 2005


Hi Rich and Everyone,

I am the new kid on the block here so you will have to excuse me if I 
miss some points that have already been made. There seems to have been a 
lot of work done over the past couple of years and I am rushing to 
assimilate it all.

Looks like we are agreed on having one mailing list and one wiki but, as 
an outsider, what seems to be missing to me is that we still have two 
schema.

My understanding is that the LC was a spin out of the TCS for sorting 
out the naming side of things and was never meant to exist on it's own. 
It was to replace the name node in the TCS.

This supports Jessie's groups finding that names should not be used in 
isolation from concepts. Even when we are passing round pure names data 
(a very rare event in the great scheme of things) we should have them 
wrapped in a TCS. All non-nomenclaturists should be assumed to be 
talking in terms of taxa not names - even if we can't practically 
delimit those taxa at present. (Excuse me if this is not a totally 
complete summary on the initial TCS findings).

Certainly we are dealing with issues of how the LC points to parts of 
the TCS for vouchers (types) and publications just at the moment and 
these discussions don't make sense outside the TCS.

What are people's feelings on merging TCS and LC in the very near future 
and only talking about one thing?

I am very aware that SEEK are using a version of TCS focused on the 
taxon side of things I believe and that my remit is to implement a 
system based on TCS over the next few months that will probably be very 
LC dependent as it is focused on the names side of things.

It would certainly best suit me to have a single schema very soon and 
documented differences between it a the one SEEK are using.

Best regards,

Roger


Richard Pyle wrote:
> Based on the subsequent comments from others on this CC list, there seems to
> be sufficient critical mass of "Aye"s to warrant the creation of an email
> list.
> 
> Matt -- if you wouldn't mind creating a list, I think that would be the best
> route.  I suspect that the volume of traffic could get large enough (in
> pulses), that it's probably best to have a separate list from seek-taxon.  I
> think that it should also be scoped to "LC" in general, rather than specific
> to the LC-TCS issue.  I imagine that the LC-TCS discussion will be one of
> the most consistently voluminous, but it should also be open to topics
> specific to LC.
> 
> I fully agree that there should also be a Wiki, where major postings, files,
> and other stuff could be archived.  I would recommend, though, that anyone
> who makes substantative changes to the Wiki should also send a "heads-up"
> and/or summary note to the list so that the non-Wiki folks can stay abreast
> of developments. At the very least, the email list address should be
> subscribed to receive automated edit announcements from the Wiki.
> 
> I will not weigh-in on the delicate issue of which of the various candidate
> Wikis should be "the" designated Wiki -- but I would like to reiterate that
> we should pick *one* [and perhaps consider migrating the content of the
> other(s) to the chosen one].
> 
> I'll try to find some time this week to get caught back up on the
> developments of the past several months (both from the LC perspective and
> the TCS perspective).
> 
> Aloha,
> Rich
> 
> Richard L. Pyle, PhD
> Database Coordinator for Natural Sciences
> Department of Natural Sciences, Bishop Museum
> 1525 Bernice St., Honolulu, HI 96817
> Ph: (808)848-4115, Fax: (808)847-8252
> email: deepreef at bishopmuseum.org
> http://www.bishopmuseum.org/bishop/HBS/pylerichard.html
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
>>-----Original Message-----
>>From: Matt Jones [mailto:jones at nceas.ucsb.edu]
>>Sent: Monday, February 28, 2005 9:40 AM
>>To: Richard Pyle
>>Cc: Nozomi Ytow; dhobern at gbif.org; G.Hagedorn at BBA.DE;
>>franz at nceas.ucsb.edu; J.Kennedy at napier.ac.uk;
>>CooperJ at landcareresearch.co.nz; ghw at anbg.gov.au; lblaine at atcc.org;
>>p.kirk at CABI.ORG; bti at dsmz.de; garrity at msu.edu; R.Kukla at napier.ac.uk;
>>C.lyal at nhm.ac.uk; yjong at science.uva.nl; weitzman at si.edu;
>>rlmoe at uclink4.berkeley.edu; cwilson at usgs.gov; sblum at CalAcademy.org;
>>seek-taxon at ecoinformatics.org; S.Hinchcliffe at kew.org;
>>sci.staff at gbif.org; ict.staff at gbif.org; roger at hyam.net;
>>gbif-dadi at roles.circa.gbif.net; gbif-ecat at roles.circa.gbif.net
>>Subject: Re: [SEEK-Taxon] RE: GBIF and TCS-LC for data exchange
>>
>>
>>Hi Rich,
>>
>>I agree that email lists are far easier to follow, so I think an email
>>list for this discussion is a good idea.  Personally I think seek-taxon
>>is a fine place for these sorts of discussions, as the main emphasis of
>>seek-taxon is producing the TCS and the relationship between LC and TCS
>>is so tight.  However, we also run many email lists and I could easily
>>set up a list specifically for LC in a few minutes if that were deemed a
>>better alternative.  Please just let me know.
>>
>>I do think wiki's play a role though (we use them in SEEK).  With a
>>Wiki, I think it is easier to consolidate information and present the
>>'current' view of an idea or topic.  We use them to distill the essence
>>of emailand other conversations into design documents.  I think it woud
>>be positive if somebody kept abrest of the issues and kept one of the
>>wikis (SEEK-taxon, TCS, LC, or other) up-to-date with the current
>>thought.  This allows greater forward progress, as email threads
>>eventualy are lost and forgotten.
>>
>>Cheers,
>>Matt
>>
>>Richard Pyle wrote:
>>
>>>>Rich wrote:
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>>However, if Wiki it is to be, I think it
>>>>>would be tremendously more efficient for making progress if we could
>>>>>designate ONE Wiki as the location where the LC/TCS integration
>>>>
>>>>issues are
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>>discussed.
>>>>
>>>>Well, one Wiki would contain many similar pages, each contains the
>>>>same dicrussion.
>>>
>>>
>>>True -- but I was referring mostly to the two (or more?)
>>
>>entirely different
>>
>>>Wiki sites on which disccussions of LC and its connection with TCS have
>>>historically occurred.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>>Following Wiki is also harder than reading e-mail especially over
>>>>time difference, in my experience.
>>>
>>>
>>>Emboldened by Paul's and James' comments, perhaps I could suggest
>>>establishing an email list dedicated to LC, including its
>>
>>relationship with
>>
>>>TCS.  The seek-taxon list could be a forum for this sort of
>>
>>discussion, but
>>
>>>I have a hunch that it might represent too much clutter for that list
>>>(SEEKers? Your thoughts?)  The ICZN list is hosted here at
>>
>>Bishop Museum --
>>
>>>if nobody else has a convenient way to establish an email
>>
>>discussion list, I
>>
>>>could inquire about setting up one here for LC.
>>>
>>>Of course, the email lists and Wikis are not mutually exclusive
>>
>>mechanisms
>>
>>>for discussion.  They can complement each other rather nicely,
>>
>>I think. I
>>
>>>understand the theoretically improved efficiency and archivability and
>>>flexibility offered by a Wiki over a straightforward email list; and the
>>>"Wiki-Warriors" could take it upon themselves to transfer
>>
>>significant email
>>
>>>list posts over to the Wiki (I would be willing to serve in
>>
>>this capacity).
>>
>>>The Wiki could also serve as a repository for downloadable
>>
>>files.  However,
>>
>>>if the absence of an email list means a significant reduction
>>
>>in discussion
>>
>>>input from certain highly insightful folks (like Paul), then I think it
>>>would be a mistake not to establish such an email list.
>>>
>>>Also, there's nothing like an email message in an indbox (especially one
>>>that includes content, rather than simple links to updated Wiki
>>
>>pages) to
>>
>>>keep a discussion moving forward.
>>>
>>>Aloha,
>>>Rich
>>>
>>>Richard L. Pyle, PhD
>>>Database Coordinator for Natural Sciences
>>>Department of Natural Sciences, Bishop Museum
>>>1525 Bernice St., Honolulu, HI 96817
>>>Ph: (808)848-4115, Fax: (808)847-8252
>>>email: deepreef at bishopmuseum.org
>>>http://www.bishopmuseum.org/bishop/HBS/pylerichard.html
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>_______________________________________________
>>>seek-taxon mailing list
>>>seek-taxon at ecoinformatics.org
>>>http://www.ecoinformatics.org/mailman/listinfo/seek-taxon
>>
>>--
>>-------------------------------------------------------------------
>>Matt Jones                                     jones at nceas.ucsb.edu
>>http://www.nceas.ucsb.edu/    Fax: 425-920-2439    Ph: 907-789-0496
>>National Center for Ecological Analysis and Synthesis (NCEAS)
>>University of California Santa Barbara
>>Interested in ecological informatics? http://www.ecoinformatics.org
>>-------------------------------------------------------------------
> 
> 
> 
> 

-- 

==============================================
  Roger Hyam
----------------------------------------------
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  Independent Web Development
----------------------------------------------
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----------------------------------------------
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