No subject
Tue Mar 22 16:43:01 PST 2005
more than a set of fields as was in ABCD i.e. objects with relationships =
between them - as I explained I think you can do that with TCS - but =
will think carefully on what has been said/proposed before responding =
further.=20
=20
later,
=20
Jessie
________________________________
From: seek-taxon-admin at ecoinformatics.org on behalf of Richard Pyle
Sent: Thu 04/11/2004 20:29
To: Dave Vieglais
Cc: seek-taxon at ecoinformatics.org
Subject: RE: [SEEK-Taxon] LinneanCore Wiki
Ah! O.K. -- then I think the concerns can be dispelled. In fact, one =
of
the central themes in the discussions so far has been to ensure that
elelments that are a matter for TCS are *NOT* built into LC. I'm not
entirely sure what context you're using the term "business rules", but =
we
are certainly discussing the rules which apply to the creation and =
objective
synonymy of Code-regulated names (ICBN, ICZN, etc.) -- which I think of =
as
sort of "business rules" -- but it is very clear to all the LC folk that =
LC
does *NOT* deal with concepts at all, or rules related to mapping of
concepts to other concepts, etc. Only stuff like basionyms, =
nomenclatural
authorships, etc., that relate to producing a string of characters to be
used as a textual label, that TCS could then attach to concept =
instances.
I hope that adequately alleviates concerns (if not, let me know so I can
help guide/restrict/re-shape LC accordingly). Of course, =
anyone/everyone is
welcome to monitor/participate in the LC Wiki discussion (URL below).
I suspect that after LC matures a little bit, we will need to come back =
to
this group and discuss how LC will fit (seamlessly) into TCS. I think =
the
only TCS elements that would be affected are "NameSimple" and the =
contents
of "NameDetailed". I also hope that Jessie and Robert will monitor the =
LC
Wiki, to make sure we do not stray and/or overlap/conflict with TCS (I'm
already doing my best to avoid that, but would still appreciate their
guidance & oversight).
Aloha,
Rich
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Dave Vieglais [mailto:vieglais at ku.edu]
> Sent: Thursday, November 04, 2004 5:18 AM
> To: Richard Pyle
> Cc: seek-taxon at ecoinformatics.org
> Subject: Re: [SEEK-Taxon] LinneanCore Wiki
>
>
> Hi Rich,
> thanks for the detailed explanation.
>
> Developing a more extensive "data type" for holding nomenclatural data
> makes a lot of sense. There was a bit of concern that the development
> of the Linnean Core was going beyond that and including business rules
> for taxonomy, and so starting to overlap, and possibly conflict /
> duplicate / confuse with the role of the TCS.
>
> cheers,
> Dave V.
>
> Richard Pyle wrote:
> > Hi Dave,
> >
> > In a nutshell, the LinneanCore group is working on a more
> robust version of
> > what now falls within the "NameDetailed" part of the TCS schema. At =
the
> > moment, TCS just "borrows" the ABCD nomenclatural elements for this; =
but
> > several of us at Christchurch felt that Jerry Cooper's draft
> "LinnaeanCore"
> > (later amended to "LinneanCore") schema was a better approach
> to managing
> > purely nomenclatural information (I could list specific reasons
> why we felt
> > that the LC approach was preferable to the ABCD approach, if you're
> > interested). Bear in mind that the LC group is *only*
> interested in Names
> > data -- NOT concept data. Virtually all of the LC discussion
> members have
> > agreed that all concept-related information should be excluded
> from LC, and
> > left to TCS. Many (but not all....yet) of us feel strongly
> that LC should
> > not exist as stand-alone schema, but rather exist only in the
> context of a
> > TCS "wrapper". In the case of TCS instances that are of "Nominal" =
(aka
> > "Nomenclatural") type, the LC elements would constitute the
> bulk of content.
> > As far as I can tell, whatever comes of LC, it will not impact
> any of the
> > TCS elements outside of "NameDetailed" (except, perhaps, for
> some comments
> > about "NameSimple". Of course, if any of our discussions lead
> to conclusions
> > relevant to parts of TCS outside of "NameDetailed", we'll certainly =
make
> > sure those comments get back to the SEEK taxon group).
> >
> > So...here are some bulleted points:
> > * LC is intended to replace the elements included within the TCS
> > "NameDetailed" section (currently borrowed from ABCD)
> >
> > * LC focuses mostly on issues related to Codes of
> Nomenclature, and does
> > not deal with concept information
> >
> > * Most of the points of discussion on LC are topics that have not =
yet
> > been adequately addressed (if at all) by the TCS group
> >
> > * If those of us who feel that LC should only exist within a
> TCS wrapper
> > prevail in the LC discussions, LC could go a long way to
> providing a pathway
> > for nomenclators and name-only data holders to embrace TCS as a =
means of
> > names-only data exchange (via TCS "Nominal"-type records).
> >
> > If you'd like more bulleted points, or more elaboration on any
> of the points
> > above, please let me know. The bottom line is that I see LC as =
purely
> > complementary to TCS; not a duplication of effort. Note that Jessie =
and
> > Robert were both part of the main LC discussion in
> Christchurch, and from my
> > discussions with Jessie, I get the impression that she also
> feels that what
> > we are doing will support TCS ('though I may have misunderstood her =
--
> > Jessie?)
> >
> > Aloha,
> > Rich
> >
> > P.S. I know it's looking bleak, but don't write off Ohio just =
yet....
> >
> > Richard L. Pyle, PhD
> > Natural Sciences Database Coordinator, Bishop Museum
> > 1525 Bernice St., Honolulu, HI 96817
> > Ph: (808)848-4115, Fax: (808)847-8252
> > email: deepreef at bishopmuseum.org
> > http://www.bishopmuseum.org/bishop/HBS/pylerichard.html
> >
> >
> >>-----Original Message-----
> >>From: Dave Vieglais [mailto:vieglais at ku.edu]
> >>Sent: Tuesday, November 02, 2004 12:54 PM
> >>To: Richard Pyle
> >>Cc: Seek-Taxon
> >>Subject: Re: [SEEK-Taxon] LinneanCore Wiki
> >>
> >>
> >>Hi Rich,
> >>I must ask - What's the point? The discussion of the so called =
Linnean
> >>Core seems to be a duplicate of the last couple of years of =
community
> >>effort that have gone into the development of the TCS. Could you =
help
> >>me out a bit by providing a few bullet points to show why this
> >>development is necessary and not already covered by the TCS?
> >>
> >>Thanks,
> >> Dave V.
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>Richard Pyle wrote:
> >>
> >>>Hi All,
> >>>
> >>>I thought I'd forward to you the URL to the "LinneanCore" Wiki
> >>
> >>site. For
> >>
> >>>those who weren't at TDWG in Christchurch, this came together
> >>
> >>around a group
> >>
> >>>of "name nerds" to hammer out an schema for taxonomic names.
> >>
> >>The intention
> >>
> >>>would be to have this schema drop directly into TCS "Names" =
section,
> >>>replacing what is currently taken directly from ABCD.
> >>>
> >>>Some preliminary info is on the Wiki now, and I expect discussion =
to
> >>>increase over the next few weeks:
> >>>
> >>>http://efgblade.cs.umb.edu/twiki/bin/view/UBIF/LinneanCore
> >>>
> >>>Aloha,
> >>>Rich
> >>>
> >>>Richard L. Pyle, PhD
> >>>Natural Sciences Database Coordinator, Bishop Museum
> >>>1525 Bernice St., Honolulu, HI 96817
> >>>Ph: (808)848-4115, Fax: (808)847-8252
> >>>email: deepreef at bishopmuseum.org
> >>>http://www.bishopmuseum.org/bishop/HBS/pylerichard.html
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>_______________________________________________
> >>>seek-taxon mailing list
> >>>seek-taxon at ecoinformatics.org
> >>>http://www.ecoinformatics.org/mailman/listinfo/seek-taxon
> >>>
> >
> >
> >
> >
_______________________________________________
seek-taxon mailing list
seek-taxon at ecoinformatics.org
http://www.ecoinformatics.org/mailman/listinfo/seek-taxon
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=0A=
<META NAME=3D"Generator" CONTENT=3D"MS Exchange Server version =
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<TITLE>RE: [SEEK-Taxon] LinneanCore Wiki</TITLE>=0A=
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<BODY>=0A=
<DIV id=3DidOWAReplyText29 dir=3Dltr>=0A=
<DIV dir=3Dltr><FONT face=3DArial color=3D#000000 size=3D2>Hi =
Rich</FONT></DIV>=0A=
<DIV dir=3Dltr><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2></FONT> </DIV>=0A=
<DIV dir=3Dltr><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>I was on holiday in NZ since =
TDWG and am =0A=
now in a seek meeting this week - I'm back at work next week and =
will have =0A=
a good look at the LC wiki site then and make comment. </FONT></DIV>=0A=
<DIV dir=3Dltr><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>From the Sunday meeting at =
TDWG I guess I'm =0A=
concerned that LC turns into more than a set of fields as was in ABCD =
i.e. =0A=
objects with relationships between them - as I explained I think you can =
do that =0A=
with TCS - but will think carefully on what has been said/proposed =
before =0A=
responding further. </FONT></DIV>=0A=
<DIV dir=3Dltr><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2></FONT> </DIV>=0A=
<DIV dir=3Dltr><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>later,</FONT></DIV>=0A=
<DIV dir=3Dltr><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2></FONT> </DIV>=0A=
<DIV dir=3Dltr><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>Jessie</FONT></DIV></DIV>=0A=
<DIV dir=3Dltr><BR>=0A=
<HR tabIndex=3D-1>=0A=
<FONT face=3DTahoma size=3D2><B>From:</B> =
seek-taxon-admin at ecoinformatics.org on =0A=
behalf of Richard Pyle<BR><B>Sent:</B> Thu 04/11/2004 =
20:29<BR><B>To:</B> Dave =0A=
Vieglais<BR><B>Cc:</B> seek-taxon at ecoinformatics.org<BR><B>Subject:</B> =
RE: =0A=
[SEEK-Taxon] LinneanCore Wiki<BR></FONT><BR></DIV>=0A=
<DIV><BR>=0A=
<P><FONT size=3D2>Ah! O.K. -- then I think the concerns can be =0A=
dispelled. In fact, one of<BR>the central themes in the =
discussions so far =0A=
has been to ensure that<BR>elelments that are a matter for TCS are *NOT* =
built =0A=
into LC. I'm not<BR>entirely sure what context you're using the =
term =0A=
"business rules", but we<BR>are certainly discussing the rules which =
apply to =0A=
the creation and objective<BR>synonymy of Code-regulated names (ICBN, =
ICZN, =0A=
etc.) -- which I think of as<BR>sort of "business rules" -- but it is =
very clear =0A=
to all the LC folk that LC<BR>does *NOT* deal with concepts at all, or =
rules =0A=
related to mapping of<BR>concepts to other concepts, etc. Only =
stuff like =0A=
basionyms, nomenclatural<BR>authorships, etc., that relate to producing =
a string =0A=
of characters to be<BR>used as a textual label, that TCS could then =
attach to =0A=
concept instances.<BR><BR>I hope that adequately alleviates concerns (if =
not, =0A=
let me know so I can<BR>help guide/restrict/re-shape LC =
accordingly). Of =0A=
course, anyone/everyone is<BR>welcome to monitor/participate in the LC =
Wiki =0A=
discussion (URL below).<BR><BR>I suspect that after LC matures a little =
bit, we =0A=
will need to come back to<BR>this group and discuss how LC will fit =
(seamlessly) =0A=
into TCS. I think the<BR>only TCS elements that would be affected =
are =0A=
"NameSimple" and the contents<BR>of "NameDetailed". I also hope =
that =0A=
Jessie and Robert will monitor the LC<BR>Wiki, to make sure we do not =
stray =0A=
and/or overlap/conflict with TCS (I'm<BR>already doing my best to avoid =
that, =0A=
but would still appreciate their<BR>guidance & =0A=
oversight).<BR><BR>Aloha,<BR>Rich<BR><BR>> -----Original =
Message-----<BR>> =0A=
From: Dave Vieglais [<A =0A=
href=3D"mailto:vieglais at ku.edu">mailto:vieglais at ku.edu</A>]<BR>> =
Sent: =0A=
Thursday, November 04, 2004 5:18 AM<BR>> To: Richard Pyle<BR>> Cc: =0A=
seek-taxon at ecoinformatics.org<BR>> Subject: Re: [SEEK-Taxon] =
LinneanCore =0A=
Wiki<BR>><BR>><BR>> Hi Rich,<BR>> thanks for the detailed =0A=
explanation.<BR>><BR>> Developing a more extensive "data type" for =
holding =0A=
nomenclatural data<BR>> makes a lot of sense. There was a bit =
of =0A=
concern that the development<BR>> of the Linnean Core was going =
beyond that =0A=
and including business rules<BR>> for taxonomy, and so starting to =
overlap, =0A=
and possibly conflict /<BR>> duplicate / confuse with the role of the =0A=
TCS.<BR>><BR>> cheers,<BR>> Dave =
V.<BR>><BR>> =0A=
Richard Pyle wrote:<BR>> > Hi Dave,<BR>> ><BR>> > In a =0A=
nutshell, the LinneanCore group is working on a more<BR>> robust =
version =0A=
of<BR>> > what now falls within the "NameDetailed" part of the TCS =0A=
schema. At the<BR>> > moment, TCS just "borrows" the ABCD =0A=
nomenclatural elements for this; but<BR>> > several of us at =
Christchurch =0A=
felt that Jerry Cooper's draft<BR>> "LinnaeanCore"<BR>> > =
(later =0A=
amended to "LinneanCore") schema was a better approach<BR>> to =0A=
managing<BR>> > purely nomenclatural information (I could list =
specific =0A=
reasons<BR>> why we felt<BR>> > that the LC approach was =
preferable to =0A=
the ABCD approach, if you're<BR>> > interested). Bear in =
mind that =0A=
the LC group is *only*<BR>> interested in Names<BR>> > data -- =
NOT =0A=
concept data. Virtually all of the LC discussion<BR>> members =0A=
have<BR>> > agreed that all concept-related information should be =0A=
excluded<BR>> from LC, and<BR>> > left to TCS. Many (but =
not =0A=
all....yet) of us feel strongly<BR>> that LC should<BR>> > not =
exist as =0A=
stand-alone schema, but rather exist only in the<BR>> context of =
a<BR>> =0A=
> TCS "wrapper". In the case of TCS instances that are of =
"Nominal" =0A=
(aka<BR>> > "Nomenclatural") type, the LC elements would =
constitute =0A=
the<BR>> bulk of content.<BR>> > As far as I can tell, whatever =
comes =0A=
of LC, it will not impact<BR>> any of the<BR>> > TCS elements =
outside =0A=
of "NameDetailed" (except, perhaps, for<BR>> some comments<BR>> =
> about =0A=
"NameSimple". Of course, if any of our discussions lead<BR>> to =0A=
conclusions<BR>> > relevant to parts of TCS outside of =
"NameDetailed", =0A=
we'll certainly make<BR>> > sure those comments get back to the =
SEEK taxon =0A=
group).<BR>> ><BR>> > So...here are some bulleted =
points:<BR>> =0A=
> * LC is intended to replace the elements included =
within =0A=
the TCS<BR>> > "NameDetailed" section (currently borrowed from =0A=
ABCD)<BR>> ><BR>> > * LC focuses mostly on =
issues =0A=
related to Codes of<BR>> Nomenclature, and does<BR>> > not deal =
with =0A=
concept information<BR>> ><BR>> > * Most =
of the =0A=
points of discussion on LC are topics that have not yet<BR>> > =
been =0A=
adequately addressed (if at all) by the TCS group<BR>> ><BR>> =0A=
> * If those of us who feel that LC should only =
exist =0A=
within a<BR>> TCS wrapper<BR>> > prevail in the LC discussions, =
LC =0A=
could go a long way to<BR>> providing a pathway<BR>> > for =
nomenclators =0A=
and name-only data holders to embrace TCS as a means of<BR>> > =
names-only =0A=
data exchange (via TCS "Nominal"-type records).<BR>> ><BR>> =
> If =0A=
you'd like more bulleted points, or more elaboration on any<BR>> of =
the =0A=
points<BR>> > above, please let me know. The bottom line is =
that I =0A=
see LC as purely<BR>> > complementary to TCS; not a duplication of =
effort. =0A=
Note that Jessie and<BR>> > Robert were both part of the main LC =0A=
discussion in<BR>> Christchurch, and from my<BR>> > discussions =
with =0A=
Jessie, I get the impression that she also<BR>> feels that =
what<BR>> > =0A=
we are doing will support TCS ('though I may have misunderstood her =
--<BR>> =0A=
> Jessie?)<BR>> ><BR>> > Aloha,<BR>> > Rich<BR>> =0A=
><BR>> > P.S. I know it's looking bleak, but don't write off =
Ohio just =0A=
yet....<BR>> ><BR>> > Richard L. Pyle, PhD<BR>> > =
Natural =0A=
Sciences Database Coordinator, Bishop Museum<BR>> > 1525 Bernice =
St., =0A=
Honolulu, HI 96817<BR>> > Ph: (808)848-4115, Fax: =
(808)847-8252<BR>> =0A=
> email: deepreef at bishopmuseum.org<BR>> > <A =0A=
href=3D"http://www.bishopmuseum.org/bishop/HBS/pylerichard.html">http://w=
ww.bishopmuseum.org/bishop/HBS/pylerichard.html</A><BR>> =0A=
><BR>> ><BR>> >>-----Original Message-----<BR>> =0A=
>>From: Dave Vieglais [<A =0A=
href=3D"mailto:vieglais at ku.edu">mailto:vieglais at ku.edu</A>]<BR>> =
>>Sent: =0A=
Tuesday, November 02, 2004 12:54 PM<BR>> >>To: Richard =
Pyle<BR>> =0A=
>>Cc: Seek-Taxon<BR>> >>Subject: Re: [SEEK-Taxon] =
LinneanCore =0A=
Wiki<BR>> >><BR>> >><BR>> >>Hi Rich,<BR>> =0A=
>>I must ask - What's the point? The discussion of the so =
called =0A=
Linnean<BR>> >>Core seems to be a duplicate of the last couple =
of years =0A=
of community<BR>> >>effort that have gone into the development =
of the =0A=
TCS. Could you help<BR>> >>me out a bit by providing a =
few bullet =0A=
points to show why this<BR>> >>development is necessary and not =
already =0A=
covered by the TCS?<BR>> >><BR>> >>Thanks,<BR>> =0A=
>> Dave V.<BR>> >><BR>> >><BR>> =0A=
>><BR>> >>Richard Pyle wrote:<BR>> >><BR>> =0A=
>>>Hi All,<BR>> >>><BR>> >>>I thought =
I'd =0A=
forward to you the URL to the "LinneanCore" Wiki<BR>> =
>><BR>> =0A=
>>site. For<BR>> >><BR>> >>>those who =
weren't =0A=
at TDWG in Christchurch, this came together<BR>> >><BR>> =0A=
>>around a group<BR>> >><BR>> >>>of "name =
nerds" to =0A=
hammer out an schema for taxonomic names.<BR>> >><BR>> =
>>The =0A=
intention<BR>> >><BR>> >>>would be to have this =
schema drop =0A=
directly into TCS "Names" section,<BR>> >>>replacing what is =0A=
currently taken directly from ABCD.<BR>> >>><BR>> =0A=
>>>Some preliminary info is on the Wiki now, and I expect =
discussion =0A=
to<BR>> >>>increase over the next few weeks:<BR>> =0A=
>>><BR>> >>><A =0A=
href=3D"http://efgblade.cs.umb.edu/twiki/bin/view/UBIF/LinneanCore">http:=
//efgblade.cs.umb.edu/twiki/bin/view/UBIF/LinneanCore</A><BR>> =0A=
>>><BR>> >>>Aloha,<BR>> >>>Rich<BR>> =0A=
>>><BR>> >>>Richard L. Pyle, PhD<BR>> =0A=
>>>Natural Sciences Database Coordinator, Bishop Museum<BR>> =0A=
>>>1525 Bernice St., Honolulu, HI 96817<BR>> >>>Ph: =0A=
(808)848-4115, Fax: (808)847-8252<BR>> >>>email: =0A=
deepreef at bishopmuseum.org<BR>> >>><A =0A=
href=3D"http://www.bishopmuseum.org/bishop/HBS/pylerichard.html">http://w=
ww.bishopmuseum.org/bishop/HBS/pylerichard.html</A><BR>> =0A=
>>><BR>> >>><BR>> =0A=
>>>_______________________________________________<BR>> =0A=
>>>seek-taxon mailing list<BR>> =0A=
>>>seek-taxon at ecoinformatics.org<BR>> >>><A =0A=
href=3D"http://www.ecoinformatics.org/mailman/listinfo/seek-taxon">http:/=
/www.ecoinformatics.org/mailman/listinfo/seek-taxon</A><BR>> =0A=
>>><BR>> ><BR>> ><BR>> ><BR>> =0A=
><BR><BR><BR>_______________________________________________<BR>seek-t=
axon =0A=
mailing list<BR>seek-taxon at ecoinformatics.org<BR><A =0A=
href=3D"http://www.ecoinformatics.org/mailman/listinfo/seek-taxon">http:/=
/www.ecoinformatics.org/mailman/listinfo/seek-taxon</A><BR></FONT></P></D=
IV>=0A=
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