[kepler-dev] Re: [SDM-SPA] javadoc, junit, installer for Windows

[Christopher Hylands Brooks]

Xiaowen Xin <xin2 at llnl.gov> writes:
> Thanks for the information!
> 
> I will definitely look into Java Web Start.
> 
> Could you please give me the URL for the free version of
> InstallAnywhere?  I have looked and not found a free version other than
> an evaluation version, that includes this notice:
> 
> Please note: Projects designed with trial versions of InstallAnywhere do
> not expire and can be used with licensed versions. However, Installers
> built with a trial version of InstallAnywhere will time out after three
> days and must be rebuilt at that time.
> 

I guess the zerog site no longer has a free version of InstallAnywhere
that is useful past three days. 

Matt said
>> ... Which is another reason I like InstallAnywhereNow, 
>> because it generates installers for Windows, MacOS, and linux.

So, the product is called InstallAnywhereNow

http://www.zerog.com/products_ia_07_now.html#4
mentions InstallAnywhereNow 5.5, but there is no binary (I did not
look hard though) 

Maybe you can get it from 
http://www.winsite.com/bin/Info?500000032481

> Must we also get the Mac OS X version of InstallAnywhere in order to
> build a OS X version of the installer?

The Version of InstallShieldEnterprise that I have is from last year.
It was able to build a OS X version installer.  The installer did 
not particularly have a native look and feel, but that was ok.
I'm not sure what the new version of InstallAnywhere for MacOS X does.


> >From Apple's website at:
> 
> http://developer.apple.com/documentation/Java/Conceptual/Java141Development/Deployment_Options/chapter_4_section_3.html
> 
> it looks like Mac OS X Application Bundles may also be a good
> alternative.
>
> It can be created from the command line or an ant build file (ant is the
> build tool used by Kepler & SPA).  The advantage of this is it feels
> just like a native Mac OS X Application.  What do you think?

Looks promising.  I especially like that it can be made to work with
Ant. It looks like basically we need to generate a Info.plist xml file
from Ant.  Someone has probably done this already.  (Note that
in principle, we can generate an InstallAnywhere configuration file in
a similar manner, though we might need to do some work ourselves.)

One downside is that the Mac OS installer would be different than the
installers for the other platforms.  Since almost none of the
developers are using Mac OS, it seems like it would be better if
we had a common installer that was as similar as possible across
platforms.

Is there a basic philosophical opposition to spending the money for
InstallAnywhere?  I'm not a big fan of commercial software,
InstallAnywhere is one of the few commercial packages we buy
(JProfiler, Matlab, Framemaker and Acrobat Distiller are the others).

I would really rather use a free product than InstallAnywhere, but it
seems like if NSIS does not meet our needs, either we have multiple
installers or we go with a commercial product.

I'm not trying to yank anyone's chain about using commercial software,
I was just curious.  

It looks like InstallAnywhere has some support for Ant:
http://www.zerog.com/newsItems/news_022105_ia5release.html says:
> Apache Ant integration, for execution of Ant targets before, during,
> and after installation
See also
http://www.zerog.com/products_ia_06.html#

-Christopher

> 
> Xiaowen
> 
> On Tue, 2004-03-30 at 18:05, Christopher Hylands Brooks wrote:
> > BTW - My method of building installers is to create signed jar files
> > for the various components and then use these signed jar files in
> > WebStart to create one master installation that should in theory work
> > for all platforms.
> > 
> > I then take unsigned versions of the jar files and use these with
> > InstallAnywhere.
> > 
> > The advantage of use WebStart is that it is much faster to
> > rebuild a jar and substitute it into the WebStart directories and then
> > download just that jar file than it is to rebuild an InstallAnywhere
> > Installer, uninstall the old installation, download the possibly huge
> > installer and reinstall.
> > 
> > In principle, the way we create a WebStart configuration is
> > conceptually similar to how build.xml probably works, except our jar
> > files are listed in a makefile instead of in build.xml(?)  The
> > makefile automatically generates the WebStart configurations from the
> > jar files listed in $PTII/mk/jnlp.mk
> > 
> > I have a random collection of notes about WebStart at
> > http://ptolemy.eecs.berkeley.edu/ptolemyII/ptII3.0/ptII3.0.2/doc/webStartHelp
>     .htm
> > 
> > However, I still need to configure InstallAnywhere by hand.
> > The InstallAnywhere file format is XML, so in theory the file
> > could be configured by hand.  One issue with InstallAnywhere is that
> > it is tricky to create multiple installers.  One can have
> > an installer with multiple packages in it (full, docs, examples), 
> > but it is tricky to create a smaller installer that has just the
> > minimum.
> > 
> > 
> > BTW - We are currently using InstallAnywhere Enterprise. 
> > There is InstallAnywhere Standard edition, but it does
> > not support USER_MAGIC_FOLDERS, which we needed to set up a shortcut
> > folder in 2002.  The details are a bit foggy, but basically I wanted 
> > to create
> > Start -> Programs -> Ptolemy -> Ptplot 5.2
> > instead of
> > Start -> Programs -> Ptplot 5.2
> > because the Ptolemy project has several different products, and
> > it is better if they are grouped together.
> > 
> > We ended up upgrading to InstallAnywhere Enterprise, which is roughly
> > $1500/year for one seat.
> > 
> > If you can use the free version of InstallAnywhere, then that would be
> > great.
> > 
> > 
> > Note that there is also a InstallAnywhere Mac OS X Edition that is
> > extra, I'm not sure what it gets you.
> > 
> > I'm disappointed that NSIS does not support Mac OS, I was going to try
> > it out.  Locally, the Ptolemy group has no Mac users, though I do have
> > access to a Mac OS X laptop.  I would like to work with Mac OS X users
> > on getting Ptolemy II to work better on that platform.  
> > 
> > There is a list of limitations at
> > http://ptolemy.eecs.berkeley.edu/ptolemyII/ptII3.0/mac.htm
> > 
> > Ptolemy II requires Java 1.4 or later because we use the java.net.URI
> > and Exception chaining.
> > 
> > JDK 1.2.2 has a bug involving compiling inner classes with protected
> > methods.
> > 
> > The RTOS domain uses java.util.Timer, which is present in JDK 1.3
> > and later.
> > 
> > I don't think Mac OS 9.x has a Java 1.4 installation.
> > 
> > http://developer.apple.com/java/faq/index.html#gen_5 says:
> > >Q: Is there a J2SE release for Mac OS 9 and earlier?
> > 
> > >A: The latest Mac OS Runtime for Java on Mac OS 9 provided a 1.1.8
> > >Java VM. There are no plans to bring any versions of J2SE to Mac OS
> > >9. If you are looking to make use of certain extension APIs on Mac OS
> > >9, such as Swing, JavaHelp, or the newer Collections API, keep in
> > >mind that you can download 1.1.x versions of these libraries from
> > >http://java.sun.com.
> > 
> > I don't have much interest in supporting Mac OS 9.x users, but
> > if there were trivial patches necessary to support Ptolemy under MacOS
> > 9.x, I would fold them in.
> > 
> > Xiaowen Xin <xin2 at llnl.gov> writes:
> > > I don't have any experience on Mac OS; do you know what kind of package
> > > management system it uses?
> > 
> > I don't know either.  I'd wager that rpm has been ported to Mac OS X.
> > rpm is available under Cygwin and Solaris. 
> > 
> > > Since Mac OS X is a BSD with some modifications, do you think the
> > > scientists can be expected to know how to run a shell script?  It
> > > should be easy to distribute a shell script (like Sun does with
> > > Java) for the Unix users.
> > 
> > Yes, Mac OS X users could run shell scripts, though that is a little
> > bear skins and stone knives.  The advantage of WebStart is that the
> > user gets a more modern click-to-install installer, the disadvantage
> > is that everything is bundled up in jar files, so it makes it harder
> > for WebStart users to extend the system.
> > 
> > I think that Mac OS X users could certainly handle the
> > "./configure; make fast" method of installing Ptolemy II.
> > Presumably they could do something similar for installing your
> > products.
> > 
> > At the risk of repeating myself, as I said earlier, I had tried
> > InstallShield, and it was not very good.  Maybe it is better now.
> > 
> > I have some notes from March 19, 2001 about the InstallShield limitations
> > http://ptolemy.eecs.berkeley.edu/ptolemyII/ptII1.0/installshield.htm#bugs
> > Currently, regular InstallShield installers from Sun for JDK1.5.0-beta
> > hang on my machine for several minutes.  I really cannot recommend
> > InstallShield.
> > 
> > 
> > 
> > -Christopher




--------

    Hi Christopher,
    
    Thanks for the information!
    
    I will definitely look into Java Web Start.
    
    Could you please give me the URL for the free version of
    InstallAnywhere?  I have looked and not found a free version other than
    an evaluation version, that includes this notice:
    
    Please note: Projects designed with trial versions of InstallAnywhere do
    not expire and can be used with licensed versions. However, Installers
    built with a trial version of InstallAnywhere will time out after three
    days and must be rebuilt at that time.
    
    Must we also get the Mac OS X version of InstallAnywhere in order to
    build a OS X version of the installer?
    
    >From Apple's website at:
    
    http://developer.apple.com/documentation/Java/Conceptual/Java141Development/Deployment_Options/chapter_4_section_3.html
    
    it looks like Mac OS X Application Bundles may also be a good
    alternative.
    
    It can be created from the command line or an ant build file (ant is the
    build tool used by Kepler & SPA).  The advantage of this is it feels
    just like a native Mac OS X Application.  What do you think?
    
    
    Xiaowen
    
    On Tue, 2004-03-30 at 18:05, Christopher Hylands Brooks wrote:
    > BTW - My method of building installers is to create signed jar files
    > for the various components and then use these signed jar files in
    > WebStart to create one master installation that should in theory work
    > for all platforms.
    > 
    > I then take unsigned versions of the jar files and use these with
    > InstallAnywhere.
    > 
    > The advantage of use WebStart is that it is much faster to
    > rebuild a jar and substitute it into the WebStart directories and then
    > download just that jar file than it is to rebuild an InstallAnywhere
    > Installer, uninstall the old installation, download the possibly huge
    > installer and reinstall.
    > 
    > In principle, the way we create a WebStart configuration is
    > conceptually similar to how build.xml probably works, except our jar
    > files are listed in a makefile instead of in build.xml(?)  The
    > makefile automatically generates the WebStart configurations from the
    > jar files listed in $PTII/mk/jnlp.mk
    > 
    > I have a random collection of notes about WebStart at
    > http://ptolemy.eecs.berkeley.edu/ptolemyII/ptII3.0/ptII3.0.2/doc/webStart
   Help.htm
    > 
    > However, I still need to configure InstallAnywhere by hand.
    > The InstallAnywhere file format is XML, so in theory the file
    > could be configured by hand.  One issue with InstallAnywhere is that
    > it is tricky to create multiple installers.  One can have
    > an installer with multiple packages in it (full, docs, examples), 
    > but it is tricky to create a smaller installer that has just the
    > minimum.
    > 
    > 
    > BTW - We are currently using InstallAnywhere Enterprise. 
    > There is InstallAnywhere Standard edition, but it does
    > not support USER_MAGIC_FOLDERS, which we needed to set up a shortcut
    > folder in 2002.  The details are a bit foggy, but basically I wanted 
    > to create
    > Start -> Programs -> Ptolemy -> Ptplot 5.2
    > instead of
    > Start -> Programs -> Ptplot 5.2
    > because the Ptolemy project has several different products, and
    > it is better if they are grouped together.
    > 
    > We ended up upgrading to InstallAnywhere Enterprise, which is roughly
    > $1500/year for one seat.
    > 
    > If you can use the free version of InstallAnywhere, then that would be
    > great.
    > 
    > 
    > Note that there is also a InstallAnywhere Mac OS X Edition that is
    > extra, I'm not sure what it gets you.
    > 
    > I'm disappointed that NSIS does not support Mac OS, I was going to try
    > it out.  Locally, the Ptolemy group has no Mac users, though I do have
    > access to a Mac OS X laptop.  I would like to work with Mac OS X users
    > on getting Ptolemy II to work better on that platform.  
    > 
    > There is a list of limitations at
    > http://ptolemy.eecs.berkeley.edu/ptolemyII/ptII3.0/mac.htm
    > 
    > Ptolemy II requires Java 1.4 or later because we use the java.net.URI
    > and Exception chaining.
    > 
    > JDK 1.2.2 has a bug involving compiling inner classes with protected
    > methods.
    > 
    > The RTOS domain uses java.util.Timer, which is present in JDK 1.3
    > and later.
    > 
    > I don't think Mac OS 9.x has a Java 1.4 installation.
    > 
    > http://developer.apple.com/java/faq/index.html#gen_5 says:
    > >Q: Is there a J2SE release for Mac OS 9 and earlier?
    > 
    > >A: The latest Mac OS Runtime for Java on Mac OS 9 provided a 1.1.8
    > >Java VM. There are no plans to bring any versions of J2SE to Mac OS
    > >9. If you are looking to make use of certain extension APIs on Mac OS
    > >9, such as Swing, JavaHelp, or the newer Collections API, keep in
    > >mind that you can download 1.1.x versions of these libraries from
    > >http://java.sun.com.
    > 
    > I don't have much interest in supporting Mac OS 9.x users, but
    > if there were trivial patches necessary to support Ptolemy under MacOS
    > 9.x, I would fold them in.
    > 
    > Xiaowen Xin <xin2 at llnl.gov> writes:
    > > I don't have any experience on Mac OS; do you know what kind of package
    > > management system it uses?
    > 
    > I don't know either.  I'd wager that rpm has been ported to Mac OS X.
    > rpm is available under Cygwin and Solaris. 
    > 
    > > Since Mac OS X is a BSD with some modifications, do you think the
    > > scientists can be expected to know how to run a shell script?  It
    > > should be easy to distribute a shell script (like Sun does with
    > > Java) for the Unix users.
    > 
    > Yes, Mac OS X users could run shell scripts, though that is a little
    > bear skins and stone knives.  The advantage of WebStart is that the
    > user gets a more modern click-to-install installer, the disadvantage
    > is that everything is bundled up in jar files, so it makes it harder
    > for WebStart users to extend the system.
    > 
    > I think that Mac OS X users could certainly handle the
    > "./configure; make fast" method of installing Ptolemy II.
    > Presumably they could do something similar for installing your
    > products.
    > 
    > At the risk of repeating myself, as I said earlier, I had tried
    > InstallShield, and it was not very good.  Maybe it is better now.
    > 
    > I have some notes from March 19, 2001 about the InstallShield limitations
    > http://ptolemy.eecs.berkeley.edu/ptolemyII/ptII1.0/installshield.htm#bugs
    > Currently, regular InstallShield installers from Sun for JDK1.5.0-beta
    > hang on my machine for several minutes.  I really cannot recommend
    > InstallShield.
    > 
    > 
    > 
    > -Christopher
--------