[tcs-lc] Minor modifications prior TDWG ratification vote

[Jerry Cooper]

.. and I forgot to say that I don't think the concensus definition of incertae sedis has any practical consequence for the TCS schema. I think it is simply an 'is parent of' concept relationship  sensu the asserting author. It's just that 'incertae sedis' isn't a scientific name, but then neither is a lot of stuff we will have to pass around via concepts.

We have voted for its proposed acceptance as a TDWG standard. In general I believe that TCS has reached the stage where we need real implementations to test its utility.  So I suggest we now move to that stage and catalogue our experiences.

Jerry


>>> "Chris Lyal" <C.lyal at nhm.ac.uk> 18/09/2005 9:11:38 p.m. >>>
I agree with Jerry.  The statement is that the author recognises the taxon as a component of the taxon hierarchical level within which it is incertae sedis, but cannot place it within any of the taxa at the next heirarchical level below.  This may be interpreted as a statement about the absence of data regarding the incertae sedis taxon, or, indeed, a statement that the totality of the circumscriptions of the taxa at the next lowest rank are in their current form insufficient to encompass the full variation within the higher taxon.
 
Chris
 

	-----Original Message----- 
	From: Jerry Cooper [mailto:CooperJ at landcareresearch.co.nz] 
	Sent: Sun 18/09/2005 13:47 
	To: nozomi at biol.tsukuba.ac.jp; deepreef at bishopmuseum.org; tcs-lc at ecoinformatics.org; dhobern at gbif.org 
	Cc: 
	Subject: Re: [tcs-lc] Minor modifications prior TDWG ratification vote
	
	

	All,
	
	I'm not sure I agree with this simplistic interpretaion of incertae sedis. I thought it meant
	 the author could not place it in any of the existing  named higher ranks in his circumscription of the taxon (which incorporates a concept of the higher classification). e.g. that none of the existing families in a particular classification he wishes to adopt is suitable for his taxon. Thus incertae sedis carries concept information, as does any component of the higher classification applied to a taxon. In my opinion it is a necessary statement about the absence of information and not just a lack of data.
	
	Jerry
	
	>>> "Donald Hobern" <dhobern at gbif.org> 18/09/2005 11:33:56 a.m. >>>
	For what it's worth, I feel the same as Rich on this.  The TCS should not
	attempt to be a vehicle for transfer of all information in a taxonomic
	document - only of that which can in some way be used.
	
	Donald
	
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	-----Original Message-----
	From: tcs-lc-bounces at ecoinformatics.org 
	[mailto:tcs-lc-bounces at ecoinformatics.org] On Behalf Of Richard Pyle
	Sent: 18 September 2005 08:53
	To: Nozomi Ytow; tcs-lc at ecoinformatics.org 
	Subject: Re: [tcs-lc] Minor modifications prior TDWG ratification vote
	
	> Not "unknown to data provider" but "stated incertae sedis by the
	> author".  "Unknow to data provider" can happen when author did
	> not specify the higher rank, but it is not incertae sedis except
	> the author stated explicitly (either as incertae sedis or in
	> natural language).
	
	Ah!!  I now have a glimmer of understanding!  If the purpose is simply to
	record the fact that the author used the term "incertae sedis" in the
	publication, then I do not consider this information important for purposes
	of TCS, because it does not help us understand anything about the Concept
	definition, or relationships to other concepts.  There are many other kinds
	of information that authors include with their use of names and concepts,
	which are not included in TCS.
	
	Aloha,
	Rich
	
	
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