[kepler-dev] Kepler user interface + relation to Recito

Mon Nov 19 15:06:39 PST 2007

A couple of points:

- We have always carefully architected the Java classes in the
  Ptolemy core packages to not depend on the UI, so all of the
  things you propose for separating execution from the UI should be doable.

- I use Eclipse with Ptolemy II all the time, and find the ability
  to develop Java classes (actors, etc.) and have them automatically
  update in the running vergil extremely useful.  Setting breakpoints
  is also extremely useful.  But all of these tasks are code development
  tasks, not model development tasks.

- A tighter Eclipse integration supporting model development
  could be very attractive, but there is a potentially huge job.
  In particular, Eclipse does not integrate well with the AWT, so
  all the underlying graphics support in vergil, the plotters,
  the dialog boxes, etc., would have to be redone.  This is a
  very big job.  Is it worth it?

- One argument for using Eclipse is to get the one-window style
  of interface, vs. the multi-window interface currently used in
  Kepler and Vergil.  However, this can be accomplished by a more
  modest effort.  There is a good starting point already available.
  Invoke vergil -single, and you get a tabbed pane interface where
  all the models you open end up in the same window.

- An Eclipse interface would not make a good interface for the model
  _user_ (vs. model developer and code developer).  Or, more precisely,
  I would be hard pressed to figure out how to use Eclipse effectively
  for that purpose.

So I would caution against deciding for an Eclipse interface just
because Eclipse is cool (which it is).  It requires some careful thought about
both cost and benefits.

Edward

At 10:38 AM 11/19/2007, Matthew Jones wrote:
>Hi Tim,
>
>We have met the Recito developers at last year's miniconference, but we 
>were not involved in what they did.  Our plans under Kepler/CORE for a 
>new UI are more centered around a clean messaging API separating the 
>user interface from the execution engine.  We are motivated by some use 
>cases having to do with long-running workflows: the need for workflows 
>to be able to be executed on various machines, the need to be able to 
>launch the GUI to start a job, quit the UI but keep the workflows 
>running in the background (we call it "detached execution") and then 
>reconnect the UI later to monitor progress, and the desire to support 
>multiple different UI clients (e.g., Vergil, eclipse-based, and web-based).
>
>As Kepler/CORE is just starting, we have not yet collected requirements 
>nor designed the API.  This would be done in conjunction with the 
>community to try to determine what architecture would serve us best. 
>Many people have spoken of an Eclipse UI, and so I think that would be 
>high on the list of client environments that we would want to support, 
>although it would be a lot of work to develop a new UI from scratch, so 
>I'm not sure whether that would happen in the first pass -- more likely 
>a refactoring of the current engine/vergil to make it so that they are 
>better separated, allowing groups like the Recito team the ability to 
>utilize the new messaging API in their eclipse client.
>
>Matt
>
>Tim Van den Bulcke wrote:
>> Hi,
>> 
>> I have been following the evolution of Kepler for a while now and I am 
>> very enthousiastic with the projects that are currently being started 
>> such as Kepler/CORE.
>> 
>> I have seen that there exists another project called "Recito" 
>> (http://www.sp-process.it/index.php?option=com_content&task=view&id=23&Itemid=55) 
>> which provides an eclipse-based user interface to Ptolemy and has some 
>> additional actor libraries.
>> - What is their relation to the Kepler development team?
>> - Are there plans to migrate the Kepler user interface to an 
>> eclipse-based environment (which would be a great enhancement in my 
>> opinion)?
>> 
>> In Kepler/CORE a standalone GUI will be developed, is it the intention 
>> to base this on Recito or will this be done independently?
>> 
>> Thanks a lot for your answers!
>> 
>> Tim.
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> -- 
>> _______________________________________________________ 
>> 
>> ir. Tim Van den Bulcke
>> PhD candidate
>> 
>> ESAT-SCD
>> K.U. Leuven
>> Kasteelpark Arenberg 10
>> B-3001 Leuven (Heverlee)
>> Belgium
>> 
>> room: 03.11/14
>> tel: +32 16 32.86.43
>> fax: +32 16 32.19.70
>> email: tim.vandenbulcke at esat.kuleuven.be
>> homepage: http://homes.esat.kuleuven.be/~vdbulcke/
>> personal homepage: http://timvandenbulcke.objectis.net
>> _______________________________________________________ 
>> 
>> 
>> 
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>
>-- 
>~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
>Matthew B. Jones
>Director of Informatics Research and Development
>National Center for Ecological Analysis and Synthesis (NCEAS)
>UC Santa Barbara
>jones at nceas.ucsb.edu                       Ph: 1-907-523-1960
>http://www.nceas.ucsb.edu/ecoinfo
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------------ 
Edward A. Lee
Chair of EECS and Robert S. Pepper Distinguished Professor
231 Cory Hall, UC Berkeley, Berkeley, CA 94720-1770
phone: 510-642-0253, fax: 510-642-2845
eal at eecs.Berkeley.EDU, http://www.eecs.berkeley.edu/Faculty/Homepages/lee.html  